2 IPTC issues

halftone

Joined: 2005-09-29
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 12:29

Hello,

I recently discovered Gallery2 and Joomla 3 weeks ago, and am absolutely amazed at the quality and power of both products. For 3 years I had been on/off trying and failing to do 10% of what these achieve using Aborior's Simplex (too hard and poorly documented for me, I'm a hopeless programmer), and it was the demise of Aborior that prompted me to look around. Thank God!

I'm using Gallery embedded in Joomla 1.01, but these points apply standalone anyway. I am new to all this so please excuse me if I am raising dumb or well-known points. I have searched the forums and FAQ and not found much mention of IPTC.

#1 - IPTC database import
As far as I can tell, IPTC fields selected for display in Gallery are not imported into the database at any stage, so information there is not searchable. Embedded info has to be re-entered into Gallery's description, caption, date, keywords etc fields. Is this correct? Please tell me it isn't!

#2 - IPTC copyright symbol display
The international copyright symbol (which I can't type here! - but char key Alt0169 on a PC, '©' in HTML) does not display correctly from IPTC info. Gallery represents it as a '?'. I realise there is an alternative form (c) that can be used, but I and most IPTC users don't/haven't, unfortunately.

Can anything be done? I'm developing a site for pro photographers to use, and IPTC being the industry standard for embedded metadata #1 in particular is a bit of a showstopper. It's hard enough to get us to caption etc properly once, let alone twice:)

If it's a matter of writing a module, I guess I have 2 choices - learn PHP (I'll give it a go, but this looks like Everest from here :-) or find someone who can do it and wants to do it?

Gallery version = 2.0 core 1.0.0
PHP version = 4.3.10 apache2handler
PHPInfo link = n/a (offline development site)
Webserver = Apache/2.0.52 (Win32) PHP/4.3.10 mod_perl/1.99_18 Perl/v5.8.6
Database = mysql 4.0.23-nt-max-log
Toolkits = Exif, Thumbnail, Gd
Operating system = Windows NT SLAVE 5.1 build 2600
Browser = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

 
valiant

Joined: 2003-01-04
Posts: 32509
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 13:19

1. yes that's a shortcoming of g2's exif module. iptc and exif data are not stored in the database.
but:
see site admin -> exif/iptc.
you can change the options such that it imports some exif/iptc stuff into the item properties on upload time
of course you could extend the exif module to store all exif/iptc data in the database.

2. hmm, can you please post a link to a picture which has iptc data with such a copyright symbol such that we can add this to our own G2 to see the problem and debug it.

 
jrmint

Joined: 2005-08-20
Posts: 94
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 14:45
valiant wrote:
1. yes that's a shortcoming of g2's exif module. iptc and exif data are not stored in the database.
but:
see site admin -> exif/iptc.
you can change the options such that it imports some exif/iptc stuff into the item properties on upload time
of course you could extend the exif module to store all exif/iptc data in the database.

2. hmm, can you please post a link to a picture which has iptc data with such a copyright symbol such that we can add this to our own G2 to see the problem and debug it.

This feature is the only one holding me back from using this program also. I really like this version but I do need to be able to search the IPTC information also.
What file or files in the exif module need to be edited to do this? The web interface only has display options.

Thanks
David Pitsford

 
valiant

Joined: 2003-01-04
Posts: 32509
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 14:49

the exif module change is not a 2 liner of course.
you'd have to add 1+ db tables (= G2 classes) and add the appropriate sql queries in the right places. you also have to add a search plugin etc.
all in all, a non-trivial change.

 
jrmint

Joined: 2005-08-20
Posts: 94
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 14:56

Do you know if this will be a part of the next release?

 
valiant

Joined: 2003-01-04
Posts: 32509
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 15:15

probably not. there are so many other issues that have to be addressed, there won't be time for this...
unless a user submits a patch and we just need to make it ready for prime time.
or a user decides to join the development team of g2. ;)

 
halftone

Joined: 2005-09-29
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 18:21
valiant wrote:
1....but:
see site admin -> exif/iptc.
you can change the options such that it imports some exif/iptc stuff into the item properties on upload time...

You know, I thought I had tested this, but I just tried again and Gallery search had no problem finding words in IPTC captions and keywords. Which is what I was most concerned about.

I've sort-of found I can work around the non-transliteration of IPTC caption etc to Gallery fields by simply removing the latter from image block display. The IPTC caption etc fields will do fine. What I didn't like was having to re-type the info or have empty fields on the page, and this avoids that.

valiant wrote:
2. hmm, can you please post a link to a picture which has iptc data with such a copyright symbol such that we can add this to our own G2 to see the problem and debug it.

Yes, OK. Please try http://www.ohffs.co.uk/temp/ts-4514_29.jpg : that has a (c)symbol in the IPTC copyright field.

 
robert070612

Joined: 2003-08-05
Posts: 565
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 20:10
Quote:
Please try http://www.ohffs.co.uk/temp/ts-4514_29.jpg : that has a (c)symbol in the IPTC copyright field.

Tony----

I see a copyright symbol embedded in the Copyright section of the IPTC fields (using BreezeBrowser). Importing my own pictures with a test Alt-0169 character displays OK in G2. I have to say that previously I just amended/hacked the recurring word/concept known as OWNER: to be the word/concept COPYRIGHT: and in that fashion G2 does that job for you.

G2 has no problems searching for IPTC stuff though, yes, it -IS- a major blow that the developers chose not to put IPTC into MySQL. The reason was apparently one of brevity during the development cycle. As valiant has indicated we (the IPTC flag wavers!) need to attract a wider interest and, not to put it too midly, a developer on board;~)

----best wishes, Robert

 
valiant

Joined: 2003-01-04
Posts: 32509
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 21:03

yep, the copyright sign is rendered correctly.

is your G2 embedded or did you change theme.tpl?

 
robert070612

Joined: 2003-08-05
Posts: 565
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 21:41

halftone----

In case you opt to go down the redefine route here are the details. BTW it's a core file ie it's not a local-friendly mod and so you'll need to keep a local copy of the patch to revert with after an update.

[modules/core/classes/GalleryCoreSearch.class]

Quote:
$text['description'] = $module->translate('Description');
$text['keywords'] = $module->translate('Keywords');
$text['summary'] = $module->translate('Summary');
$text['title'] = $module->translate('Title');
$text['owner'] = $module->translate('Copyright');

----best wishes, Robert

 
halftone

Joined: 2005-09-29
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 22:11

Thanks Robert,

Weird. I just checked again and I definitely get 'IPTC: Copyright Notice All rights reserved - no publication without prior permission. ?Tony Sleep 2002' (cut and paste from browser). I wonder if the mod_gallery bridge I am using has any implication in this? However I am running Gallery2 standalone for the moment.

That's quite a nice hackette and probably even I can manage that level of inexpertise, if I can find the file :-)

Still, what I'm working on makes considerable use of IPTC, just because it's used by photographers and publishers alike as the portable, embedded identifier in photos. Every photo library, newspaper and agency expects it; every Adobe CS user (and many other softwares) has no excuse for not looking for it. Without copyright declarations in IPTC they'll just steal.

<RANT>
Please, everybody, use IPTC to assert your rights -- even/especially a Creative Commons Copyleft restricted licence that both safeguards the rights of the author and the cultural interests of the community. Else we'll end up very soon with a world where the only IPR is corporate IPR enforced by corporate lawyers.

(Exaggeration? Maybe, but the SAA/Picscout survey revealed "The average rate of infringements on the web is 90%. This means that for each image that is properly licensed, there are nine images that are being used on commercial web sites without being licensed" - http://www.stockartistsalliance.org/info/news/news.htm#GettyPicscout
</RANT>

So we can't do without IPTC, to be honest :-) In fact we are going to be putting some stuff in there that (as far as I know) nobody ever has before. That will be used programmatically, and it will have to use backend DB's for some of the functionality we aim to achieve. So if the project progresses beyond the prototype/proof of concept stage and we manage to raise some money, we will undoubtedly have to hire someone with the skills to do this (and quite a lot more). But it will be GPL regardless, has to be to ensure propagation, adoption and evolution. So there may be a way forward there, and if we use Gallery as a core module, we'd want to collaborate as closely as possible. Or it may all come to nothing, we won't get any finance, and the best hope will be valiant's long, long feature list ;-)

 
valiant

Joined: 2003-01-04
Posts: 32509
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 22:16
Quote:
I wonder if the mod_gallery bridge I am using has any implication in this? However I am running Gallery2 standalone for the moment.

it sure is.
probably your <meta charset at the top of the page isn't utf-8. it must be. else you get other weird character issues too.

for further mambo related issues, please see the g2 integrations or directly the mambo/joomla g2 forum website (see g2 integrations forum for more information).

your definition of 90% is weird.
if 9 other websites are using your copyright protected image, it should be 900%, but percent is a weird gauge anyway in this respect.

 
halftone

Joined: 2005-09-29
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 22:22
valiant wrote:
yep, the copyright sign is rendered correctly.

is your G2 embedded or did you change theme.tpl?

I am so far using the bog-standard Matrix theme it came with, with standard CSS. It is embedded in Joomla 1.0.1, using the current mod_gallery from www.dev4the web.nl However, I am using Gallery standalone and seeing this.

Hm.. I wonder if there's a reason why Joomla use (c)Joomla rather than © Joomla on their pages...?

(I can type © here OK now = stupidity with the numlock previously :-)

 
halftone

Joined: 2005-09-29
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 22:30

Thanks Valiant, I will have another look for the Charset, though I think I did a few days ago after reading the Umlaut thread and everything I found was UTF-8. I'll have another look and let you know if I find any anomalies, and of course advise the author.

Hey, I just copied the 9% quote! I can, though, see why you're good at programming and I'm not :-)

 
halftone

Joined: 2005-09-29
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 22:48

Well, um - the Joomla template is using

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />

Could that affect Gallery even when run standalone?

 
valiant

Joined: 2003-01-04
Posts: 32509
Posted: Fri, 2005-10-07 23:06

yep, that's it. it's the normal joomla issue. please discuss this in the g2 integrations forum. actually, there's no need to open a new discussion for this, just read the existing topics about it.

 
halftone

Joined: 2005-09-29
Posts: 22
Posted: Sat, 2005-10-08 00:47

OK. Thanks for your help.

 
valiant

Joined: 2003-01-04
Posts: 32509
Posted: Sat, 2005-10-08 09:59

please coordinate with http://gallery.menalto.com/node/29607#comment-139960 .
obviously there are at least 2 people interested in implmenting this.
this is great :)

first you should discuss the goal. what do you want to add? what do you want to do with the exif / iptc data once it is in the database? search of course. other stuff too?

so first define the goals and then we can discuss the details.

 
kaptainkory

Joined: 2006-02-04
Posts: 18
Posted: Sat, 2006-02-04 00:58

I know 2.1 is coming soon, but I just installed 2.0.2 fresh with the IPTC/EXIF module. All of my pics use IPTC Copyright.

I should see:
"© Name"

What I'm seeing instead:
"? Name"

Apparantly this little issue has not been resolved (unless it's fixed in 2.1).

Also, I use a freeware program called Xnview for simple edits. I noticed that when I add IPTC data to a picture using this program, Gallery is no longer able to read the EXIF data (even though other programs still can).

Sorry to get ahead of myself if these issues are resolved in 2.1. I'll be sure to test these out on 2.1-RC1 when released.

 
mikewren

Joined: 2006-02-14
Posts: 4
Posted: Tue, 2006-02-14 22:16

Has the status of this changed? My ideal workflow would be:

Open Camera RAW in Adobe Bridge (edit metadata) > export as JPG in Bridge > Upload to gallery via WinXP (maintain metadata)

Adding metadata once is bad enough, having to add metadata twice is masochistic.

I finally bit the bullet and seamlessly upgraded from v1 and am absolutely loving the new UI in v2. However, the lack of IPTC integration is very frustrating.

 
Demonik

Joined: 2009-04-28
Posts: 4
Posted: Tue, 2009-04-28 13:38

Unfortunately the issue still persists in Gallery v. 2.3 And not only the ©-mark, but also any non-latin characters (umlauts) are presented with a ?-symbol).

 
alecmyers

Joined: 2006-08-01
Posts: 4342
Posted: Tue, 2009-04-28 14:25

It looks like a mismatch between utf-8 encoding (the data) not being recoded to html entities to display in the browser. I don't know what the position is with utf-8 in browsers. Unfortunately there's no further development work being done on Gallery2, so the situation is unlikely to change.

 
Demonik

Joined: 2009-04-28
Posts: 4
Posted: Tue, 2009-04-28 14:55

No problem with that, as long as it will be sorted in Gallery3. In the A3 version, it is yet not (umlaut characters simply get stripped away from the keywords, together with a few trailing characters :). But this is a topic for another thread.